Starring Kiera Knightley, Matt Smith, Matthew Goode, and Ralph Fiennes in pivotal roles, the film is one of the more accurate cinematic explorations of real-life instances. You're KATHARINE GUN: . And I called Jed back, and I said, This is an amazing way into how we got into the Iraq War, thatwhy isnt it better known? And he saidI said, Could I come and meet Katharine? There was a feeling ofas what you felt, Ed, in this case, yeah. Almost a million Iraqis. Powered by WordPress.com VIP. Most people do. You know, I felt totally at ease in her company. I heard things that stuck. I thought you said youre sick. And I said, I need to talk to you. And so we went into a small room, and I just said, I did it. And then she put her arm around me and went, Oh, Katharine. And then I burst out crying. But this is not the issue. First day, what did you feel? And I justI just determined to deny it. And they attempt to deport your husband, who is a? MARTIN BRIGHT: OK, youre making me feel really bad about going to work for him now. This is viewer supported news. Inside the world of ministers secrets, Iraq war whistleblowers trial was halted due to national security threat, Permanent Record by Edward Snowden review the whistleblowers memoir, 'They wanted me gone': Edward Snowden tells of whistleblowing, his AI fears and six years in Russia, I had a moral duty: whistleblowers on why they spoke up, 'You've caused an international incident': how my work mistake came back to haunt me, Fortheir eyes only: the secret stories ministers dont want you to read, Take it from a whistleblower: Chilcot's jigsaw puzzle is missing a few pieces, Hollywood beckons for whistleblower who risked jail over Iraq dirty tricks. The relationships that form as a result of Gun's acting are quite inspiring. AMY GOODMAN: You mean period dramas of strong women have to be a hundred years ago. GAVIN HOOD: Thats exactly right. KATHARINE GUN: Yeah. Its all so resonant. Whats the defense? AMY GOODMAN: And this is a critical moment, when you say October, because thats when the U.S. Senate voted to authorize war. You didnt know what would happen with this memo you leaked to someone, who gave it to someone, but you knew you felt it wasI mean, you werent part of a movement. AMY GOODMAN: So, the Daily Mail, very sympathetic also to President Trump. The original content of this program is licensed under a. [12] A government spokesman said that the decision to drop the case had been made before the defence's demands had been submitted. In 2003, Katharine Gun exposed a plot by U.S. security officials to spy on United Nations members as they ramped up pressure to secure a resolution to go to war with Iraq, and she leaked the . The memo was a top-secret request to monitor the private communication of UN delegates for scraps of information, personal or otherwise, that could be used to give the US an edge in leveraging support for the invasion. as Katharine knows, it can be tougher to be right than to be wrong sometimes, if on those lucky occasions that one is right. Brights story was news to Gun herself, to a large degree. Katharine Gun and Martin Bright could be forgiven for fielding Hollywood's overtures with a degree of skepticism. Keira Knightley: Iraq was the first time Id been politically engaged, Leaking or briefing? AMY GOODMAN: But what caused you to say no? You know, my initial instinct was Ive got to remain anonymous. You werent particularly worried. KATHARINE GUN: Yeah, and he had no money in his pocket. Certain friends did not want to see me any more, or be seen with me some people get very paranoid. There are lots of loose ends here still. I watched it in San Francisco, at the premiere, and my friend from childhood who lived there was with me. After competing in the singing competition, she launched an acting career and was . AMY GOODMAN: That was 2014. I denied it. And whats so marvelous about what Gavins done is to just sort of bring this back into the present. You know, banks of civil servants couldnt do that. The side of that history that Gun didnt really know in its fullest detail until she worked on the film was the drama of how the story made it into the pages of the Observer. Ellsberg has called Katharine Guns action the most important and courageous leak I have ever seen. Never used in the idea of, youve broken the law, breached the Official Secrets Act. The trials and tribulations of daringly telling the truth and facing its consequences must certainly not be a light burden to bear. Gun had, of course, been forced to abandon her career in the civil service and finally, struggling for work, left Britain altogether. Katharine Gun is a British Linguist and Iraq War Whistleblower. As of 2019[update] she has lived in Turkey with her husband and daughter for several years. Attempts were made by the authorities to deport her husband, who grew disillusioned with Britain. White bread, white Trump, white, or this America, the one of every color, creed? You know, we dont have that. Spoiler: After Katharine Gun's identity became known, we at the Institute for Public Accuracy brought on Jeff Cohen, the founder of FAIR, to work with Hollie Ainbinder to get prominent individuals to support Gun. How am I possibly going to do that? But he certainly was suggesting that people would know. Among them were Reverend Jesse Jackson, Daniel Ellsberg (the US government official who leaked the Pentagon Papers), and Congressman Dennis Kucinich. One question that recurs, she says, comes from audience members asking what they should do, how they should behave, in the current mendacious political climate. KATHARINE GUN: No, she hasnt. I havent watched the films about either of them, she says. The day before the trial, Gun's defence team had asked the government for any records of legal advice about the lawfulness of the war that it had received during the run-up to the war. Following the incident, Gun struggled to find work that she loved, and her husband had grown disillusioned with Britain. We pay respect by giving voice to social justice, acknowledging our shared history and valuing the cultures of First Nations. I wonder what she made of the scattershot download methods of Edward Snowden and Julian Assange? ", "US plan to bug Security Council: the text", "Let's free the Official Secrets Act from its cold war freeze | Alex Bailin", "Leaking or briefing? This is a rush transcript. After the case was dropped I did some media for 24 hours and then I immediately decided to run away and hide and not pursue the story any more. Katharine Gun outside the Old Bailey after charges had been dropped against her, 2004. AMY GOODMAN: And did they say they were going to charge you with the Official Secrets Act? So I was bailed until November, when they charged me. Gavin Hood, the director of Official Secrets, expressed scepticism about Macdonald's statement and called for the declassification of the official documents referred to by Macdonald. [13] Speculation was rife in the media that the prosecution service had bowed to political pressure to drop the case so that any such documents would remain secret. And that if the perpetrators in these situations get away scot-free, that has a knock-on effect. Katharine Gun leaked that memo to the Observer, in the belief that the revelation of the proposed bugging and blackmail tactics might be enough to stop the war. She worked at the time at GCHQ, the British equivalent of the NSA." I took up teaching. I hope, when shes ready for this story, she will. KATHARINE GUN: My MP, yes, at the time. Gun was outraged after she learned - as part of her job with GCHQ - that the United States wanted . You have the U.S. in the longest war in U.S. history, in Afghanistan. And yeah, it was absolutely terrifying. Woman who tried to stop a war. [5] In 1993 she began studying Japanese and Chinese at Durham University. I mean, this has been going on for a number of years, and it always sort of ended up kind of petering out, so, GAVIN HOOD: Other people had approached you before. With me, it was this. AMY GOODMAN: Works for the attorney general. They called for your documents. Don't worry, we won't share or sell your information. And the memo was like this big red flag as soon as I saw it.. A full trial might have exposed any such documents to public scrutiny, as the defence was expected to argue that trying to stop an unlawful war of aggression outweighed Gun's obligations under the Official Secrets Act. The difference, I think, is that hereand your program and your viewers are testimony to thisyou have an opposition. 101 years old Katherine Coleman Goble Johnson was an American mathematician whose orbital mechanics calculations as a NASA employee were critical to the success of the first and subsequent crewed spaceflights in the United States. How dodo they join the dots? As of 2020[update] Gun lives in Turkey and Britain. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, I mean, the story doesnt end. But on the other hand, its just a deeply personal story aboutand I hope Katharine will forgive me saying thisabout an ordinary person, like one of us, who does something extraordinary. GAVIN HOOD: Theres an outrage. One foundered for lack of funds, another strayed further from the truth than she would have liked. At the time, Katharine Gun was working for Britains Government Communications Headquarters, known as GCHQ. Then we see her become this woman who's starting to really know herself and starting to try and identify her own feminine being and trying to find her own place in the boardroom as a woman, as an entity, as a sister and . Get Democracy Now! This was a huge story, crushed by a bigger story. I wanted to go to the making of the filmKeira Knightley, did you meet with her?and also ask you, Gavin, about Keira taking on this role. Official Secrets, directed by Gavin Hood, is the third in a loose trilogy of political . MARTIN BRIGHT: Well, they didnt even say why. So, no, I mean, I didnt want to say I was guilty when I didnt feel guilty. MARTIN BRIGHT: Well, I wasof course, the irony of the situation is that when we heard that a GCHQ employee, a 27-year-old GCHQ employee, Mandarin translator, I think we even said at the time, had been arrested, we were absolutely delighted, because we knew for sure that we had a big story at that point. She was arrested and charged with breach of the Official Secrets Act. "[12] In May 2019 The Guardian stated the case was dropped "when the prosecution realised that evidence would emerge that even British government lawyers believed the invasion was unlawful. It was in character, I think. In 2003, Katharine Gun, a young specialist working for Britain's Government Communications Headquarters, exposed a highly confidential memo that revealed the United States' collaboration with . GAVIN HOOD: Chile, Bulgaria, Angola, Cameroon, Pakistan, Mexico. AMY GOODMAN: So, Katharine, as all of this is unfolding, the U.S. and Britain bomb Iraq. ED VULLIAMY: Mr. Alton, screechy, ultra-right-wing. AMY GOODMAN: Were going to leave it there, and I want to thank you all so much for being with us, Katharine Gun, the whistleblower; Observer journalists at the time, Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy; and Gavin Hood, who is the director of Official Secrets, the story of Katharine Gun revealing the lies that led to the Iraq War on both sides of the ocean, in Britain and the United States, and led to so many deaths. AMY GOODMAN: The networks, like Fox, and The Drudge Report, CNN refused to interview you, saying that this couldnt be a real memo because, unfortunately, your newspaper translated it into British. AMY GOODMAN: So you just thought this was routine. You may not know the name Katharine Gun unless you live in the United Kingdom, but she was a pivotal figure in the run-up to the Iraq War.Or at least, she could have been. In the film, Official Secrets, she is played by Keira Knightley. Im Amy Goodman. It was very difficult initially. I think youll find hes hiding in plain sight. And there was a dramatic hush in the audience. We could haveyou know, you always have regrets, dont you? AMY GOODMAN: And when did that come out? [24] In July 2019, in a lengthy interview on the US program Democracy Now!, Gun, Gavin Hood (the film's director), and Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy (the journalists who broke the story of the leaked memo) discussed the events that the film describes. And they had already taken him down into the custody suite, which is, by the way, where I had been before, Gun revealed. We have sort of, you know, I want to take my country back from all those Portuguese nurses and Polish plumbers, that we really must get rid of, and sort of whats best for Britain. You know, we dont have an opposition in our country, whereas you do in yours, thank god. And yeah, it was, AMY GOODMAN: And what did you think, whenbefore you had seen Katharine and met her, what did you imagine she would be like, this young woman, 27-year-old woman of conscience, who. He knows he cant save the child. Mr. Davies, in his book, has done more recently, AMY GOODMAN: And he said to you, Martin, at least in the film, This will jeopardize our access.. Photo: Kevin RC Wilson. Youre terrified. I ask her first if it is gratifying to finally have it out there? Gun is not active on social media and occasionally participates in small-scale conferences and discussions pertaining to politics. There is no single answer to that, she says, but Bright had the best stab at it: The only thing you can do is do your job right, and be a good citizen., In other words, she says, whatever your job is, do the things that you are supposed to do. I had, you know, encounters with Blair. MARTIN BRIGHT: this was the real deal. KATHARINE GUN: Well, I mean, its terrifying. ED VULLIAMY: At the time, yes, the editor and the political. Gun owned up to the leak a few days later to save her GCHQ colleagues from a witch-hunt. Read More: Is Official Secrets a True Story? Its millions. I said, I think Ive got a scoop, Martin. But it was, yeah, a moment of great humility, actually. The woman in her 20s attempted to stop the war and firmly stood to her truthful morals. So, Lord Goldsmith decides to prosecute Katharine Gun. I didnt want to be that. Protesters against the invasion of Iraq, February 2003. Consider donating here. On the one hand I was relieved because my life wouldnt have to be scrutinised in court. KATHARINE GUN: Well, hes Turkish, from a Kurdish background, yeah. And they say, Were not even going to vote on this resolution. And the next day, we invade. We still dont know who Frank Koza is, or hes still not given a public interview about about what went on. There is a small group of us, she says. ED VULLIAMY: Thank you. KATHARINE GUN: Devastation. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. I met her in August in Durham, when she was on a brief visit to see her father. Katharine Gun's case can also be very relevant for Julian Assange's defense: "Within half an hour, the case was dropped because the prosecution declined to offer evidence. Now, what we were doing when we were breaking this story was we were attempting to show that our governments had lied to us. GAVIN HOOD: Ben Emmerson. The biggest story was: Who cares why were in the war? But, I mean, I ended up being a whistleblower myself within that organization. She grew up in Taiwan, where her father had gone to teach, and her accent is hard to place. "[5], Gun's regular job at GCHQ in Cheltenham was to translate Mandarin Chinese into English. The country, at the time, was being drummed into war by the Blair government, desperate to achieve the United Nations sanction for the imminent American-led invasion of Iraq. Explain what happened at the Q&A, Martin. Following the incident, Gun struggled to find work that she loved, and her husband had grown disillusioned with Britain. And so, a lot, a lot later. I mean, really, these people need to be held accountable for what theyve done. But it may say more about the BBC than it does about him, that with this track record you can get to the top. Initially, Gun decided to teach Mandarin Chinese in Britain. I ended up, bizarrely, teaching a couple of my former colleagues at GCHQ. Koza's email requested aid in a secret operation to bug the United Nations offices of six nations: Angola, Bulgaria, Cameroon, Chile, Guinea, and Pakistan. He gets more and more pressure from Blair. Were on the set. In a way, President Trump has been a gift for the previous president, George W. Bush, because it has really rehabilitated his reputation. "We still do not know all that happened - what GCHQ did, and why things happened," he said. And I managed to get through to his assistant. KATHARINE GUN: Mm-hmm. So I was . AMY GOODMAN: You succeeded in preventing his deportation. And I dont know how authentic it appeared to the person interviewing me, but I just felt terrible. AMY GOODMAN: They said you could have pled. MARTIN BRIGHT: I have an abiding interest in the link between religion and conflict. I dont have to be in makeup or wardrobe for hours. And she just said what she loved about Katharine isand I hope this isnt said the wrong way, and I keep saying itshes one of us. Director Gavin Hood resists this for the most part though I cant recall Martin being applauded into the office the morning after the story broke (muttered sarcasm and grudging praise was more likely the tone). MARTIN BRIGHT: Yes, we had a great, a dramatic moment at the Q&A session. Youre, KATHARINE GUN: And then I was taken away. I felt awful after I denied it. A film, Official Secrets, has been made of her story. AMY GOODMAN: So then you have Scotland Yard taking over. We can all have a view on Saddam Hussein and whether he should be deposed or not. So her moral certainty was rooted in those formative experiences? And that mattered, because, for all their faults, it seems to me that Tony Blair and George Bush understood that if they were caught out in a lie, that was a problem for them. [10] Her case became a cause clbre among activists, and many people stepped forward to urge the government to drop the case. And also, I didnt want to even risk having a criminal record. She urged "those in a position to do so to disclose information which relates to this planned aggression; legal advice, meetings between the White House and other intelligence agencies, assessments of Iran's threat level (or better yet, evidence that assessments have been altered), troop deployments and army notifications. I felt that I had done the morally right thing to do. Of course he does. All rights reserved. Following the dropping of the case, Liberty commented, "One wonders whether disclosure in this criminal trial might have been a little too embarrassing. She continues to reside in Turkey and occasionally visits Britain. AMY GOODMAN: Martin, you went on to work with Tony Blair, didnt you? (In fact, those -our and -ise endings had been introduced by an Observer editorial assistant, innocently following house style guidelines as she copied out the memo into the system.) AMY GOODMAN: I mean, youre the guy who broke the story that showed that Britain was collaborating with the U.S. in trying to get dirt on U.S. ambassadors, AMY GOODMAN: to get them to vote for the war in Iraq, which ended up killingwhat do you say at the end of the film? Official Secrets is based on the actions of Brit Katharine Gun, who revealed that America had been eavesdropping on diplomats from other countries. I wasno, as soon as he didnt come out, I. We sat in the bar of a city centre hotel, and talked about the ancient history of 2003. For the American gamer, see, Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, United Nations Security Council and the Iraq War, "Whistleblowerin Katharine Gun - "Ich frchtete, sie knnten meine Gedanken lesen", "The US spymaster, the whistleblower, and the secret email she exposed", "Profile: Katherine Gun, Iraq war wistleblower", "Katharine Gun: Ten years on what happened to the woman who revealed dirty tricks on the UN Iraq war vote? And so I did. If the war was illegal and she broke the law in order to expose an illegal war and potentially save hundreds of thousands of lives, I can use this defense of necessitythats usually used in more mundane, dare I say, contextsin this great political trial., And so he says, All right, now I need to know whether the war was legal or illegal. And he says, I need to find out what Lord Goldsmiths, the attorney-generals, legal position was in the run-up to that war. Thats [inaudible]. GAVIN HOOD: What she discovers saysis a request from the NSA to GCHQ to hack, bug the private communications and the office communications of U.N. Security Council members, in particular the nonpermanent members, the more junior members. And at some point, with great respect to Lord Goldsmith, he caves. Indeed, your point about Bush is right. We, as a collective group of countries, decide that we need to stop an event, a humanitarian disaster or a genocide or whatever. Full Interview: Frank Mugisha on New Anti-, Former Guantnamo Prisoners Ask Biden to Let Them Keep Art They Made to Escape Inhumane Conditions, Part 1: In 2003, This U.K. Whistleblower Almost Stopped the Iraq Invasion. I could not get it in. Yes. It is not often that a persons character is revealed in two sentences. Whistleblower Katharine Gun and journalist Martin Bright are interviewed for their new movie Official Secrets for the film's LFF screening. Truth has a habit of . And towards the end of the Q&A session, an elderly gentleman put up his hand and said, Im very interested in the issue of Frank Koza. KATHARINE GUN: It was GCHQ internal security, yeah. Well, this article is all about the Katherine Johnson childhood, Katherine Johnson husband (s), Katherine Johnson family and Her career in NASA. KATHARINE GUN: No, nothing atwell, they said they were arresting me on suspicion of breaking the Official Secrets Act. Shes pregnant. Many wonder whether Guns young daughter has seen the film or been told of the importance of her mothers extraordinary actions. AMY GOODMAN: Now, he goes in for a regular check-in. [8] The plan might have contravened Articles 22 and 27 of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which regulates global diplomacy. Gun, too, had expressed relief that the events are now part of a broader discussion due to the film and that she can finally talk about it without stress. For example, youre racing to the hospital with your wife. Considering the support it has received from its central character and the journalist who helped get the story published, 'Official Secrets' is an accurate dive into the events that happened. I mean, thisI dont want this to sound sanctimonious. AMY GOODMAN: Gavin, introduce us to Ben Emmerson. But as it happened, I wasnt called up on Monday. And we had to sit and wait for two hours while they winged it down from London. And Im saying, Ben, but how did you know, when you called for those documents, that theyd be there? And theres this pause. We speak with a British whistleblower whose attempts to expose lies about the Iraq invasion was called "the most important and courageous leak" in history by. Katharine Gun, a shy and studious 28-year-old who spent her days listening in to obscure Chinese intercepts, decided to tell the world about a secret plan by the US government to spy on the United Nations.. She had received an email in her inbox asking her and . He says, Wait a minute. This is, sadly, a story of failure. Therefore, it is not surprising that Gun chose to move away from the center point of all the chaos once it died down. I grew up in Taiwan, which was a military dictatorship. I mean, youre talking about the editorial leadership of The Observer, the editor-in-chief. I'm Amy Goodman. KATHARINE GUN: Need I say more? She said, you know, its ironic that here we are in the age when women now have the vote, and theyre supposed to beand were all supposed to be equal, and yet so many roles are still about women being the sidekick, women being raped, so much violence, use ityou know, a woman whos in jeopardy. These were, as I said before, bitter times. If we found other information, it may have been different, but this information seemed to show us that wed been lied to. Ed Vulliamys character, played by Rhys Ifans in the film, says, you know, he effing caved at the time when his country needed him most. So I tried to look for work. Something like. You get pulled over. [6] She left teaching in 1999, and after some temporary jobs, finding it difficult to find work as a linguist, Gun applied to GCHQ in 2001, after reading a newspaper advertisement for the organisation. Published on May 3, 2021 08:23 PM. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. A very good book by Britains most decorated journalist, called Nick Davies, called Flat Earth Newsits about the British press, but it applies everywhererealized that actually the then-editors of our paper were effectively accountable to the Tony Blair enforcement machine. MARTIN BRIGHT: I did, yes. In the very typical British manner, we just pretended we had never met.. Gun has spoken at the 51Fest and conferences arranged by organizations such as the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS). And Mr.. And after about three weeks of this meeting these extraordinary people, I said to Jed, I think I think I would like to do this. And thats where the story came from. AMY GOODMAN: And what did you tell Katharine at that time? Gun told Bright in 2013, "There seems to be this blas attitude - the spying goes on . Nobody knows if whistleblowing is nurture or nature. Plead out. And, of course, I was sitting in the restaurant waiting for her to come in, and I had no idea what to expect. Film-makers generally like to glamorise newspaper offices, making them All the Presidents Men hothouses of high-level argument and intrigue. I wish I could have written that scene. There are almost no defenses to this act. That whole period undermined the judicial process, it undermined the parliamentary process, and it undermined the media and press and the intelligence service. We are all of us living, she believes, with the consequences of that. In an interview with Democracy Now!, Gun explained, After they charged me, thats when they tried to deport my husband. When asked by Salon how it felt to see a famous actress act out her life for an audience . Theyre going to send him back to Turkey. Shes out. GAVIN HOOD: And then, for five days, I interviewed Katharine and just made notes. So, where is Gun now? Naturally, people are curious to know more about this courageous linguist who stood her ground even as political heavyweights descended upon her. After they charged me, thats when they tried to deport my husband. Authorities had attempted to deport Yasar back to the Middle East. This is her story. Iraq now, nightmare. We rely on contributions from our viewers and listeners to do our work. . The film stars Ma. Now, the defense of necessity is usually used in very more simple circumstances. KATHARINE GUN: Oh, yeah. AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. Ralph Fiennes plays Ben Emmerson. My GCHQ career obviously came to an end. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, I mean, around that time. When Katharine Gun came across a memo while working for the British government in 2003, her whole world changed. And so, I immediately went home, and Iand at the time, actually, well, my dad was staying with me, because it was Chinese New Year, and he was back from Taiwan, and he was supporting me, so he was at home. [21], Gun received the Sam Adams Award for 2003 and was supported in her case by the UK human rights pressure group Liberty and in the US by the Institute for Public Accuracy. There is a Guardian Live preview screening with Katharine Gun, Gavin Hood and Martin Bright on 12 October. KATHARINE GUN: Oh, yes, absolutely. The Observers front page story on 2 March 2003. AMY GOODMAN: The people Martin was fighting to get this story out. This was all cooked up, unpublished and. Was she immediately frightened of the consequences? Who is her husband? You have the Iraq War continuing today, 16 years after George W. Bush, knowing there were not weapons of mass destruction, invades Iraq with Britain. KATHARINE GUN: And also, Im justwell, whether its natural inclination or whether its what was kind of drummed into us at GCHQ, but it was, you know, this the sense of being private and not trusting journalists or people who are trying to ferret out information from you. I mean, thats why MartinI remember Martin and Ed. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, who wrote the memo. The first is a U.N. resolution for war. I watched you last night at one of the premieres of the film, a kind of secret showing of Official Secrets. You know, I mean, once itsif you plead guilty and you go away for three months, and its, you know, maybe not so bad as going away for two years, but still I would have had a record.
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