Stephen: And the people, they mock him and they spit on him. Andrew: Yeah, so we have in our notesbecause everyone loves it when we read from Enochic literature1 Enoch 10:8. Fr. But, yeah, thats all based on a mis-translation. Stephen: Az is a goat. So all of this is being done on this day because of his appearance. Fr. Now the thing that has been done in part is now being done totally in full. Andrew: Yes. I dont say, I got up this morning and wrapped my clothes around me.. We read everything, but cant respond to everythingyou send so much!we do save what you send for possible use in future episodes. Stephen: [Laughter] So that is what is done with the goat for Yahweh in the ritual. although not Pennsylvania, but the Emmaus that my Emmaus is named after. Are these just religious-sounding synonyms for good things or bad things? Hence, the emergence of Rabbinic Judaism. Dan: I have two questions, if thats okay. Andrew Stephen Damick and Fr. Andrew: Outside the camp, yeah. Yeah, so St. Matthew uses this language to describe I mean, to describe exactly what happens to Christ at the crucifixion. Fr. A dissertation submitted to the faculty of the School of Graduate Studies, Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion (2009) . Hebrews 9: Likewise he sprinkled the tent and all the vessels used in the worship with the blood. [Laughter] Yeah. 13-26. Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper Was Hams Wife of the Nephilim?, Partial review of Marco Romano and Marco Avanzinis The skeletons of Cyclops and Lestrigons by Ken Ammi, The Nephilim and Rephaim: Satans Seed from Creation and Emergence in the Great Tribulation, Exegetical Discord in Genesis 6.1-4 Hermeneutics: Etiology of Evil Obscured, Open Review of the Center for Rational Theologys Abarim Publications on Nephilim and Giants in the Bible, by Ken Ammi, Response to Richard Sorensens review of my paper Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper, Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic?, Angels in the Targums, An Examination of Angels, Demons, and Giants in the Pentateuch Targums, How Nephilim Absconded from the Tanakh and Invaded Folkloric Territory, A review of Adrienne Mayor's paper "Giants in Ancient Warfare" by Ken Ammi, When Gods Roamed the Earth: Thematic Parallels to Gen. 6:1-4 from the Ancient Near East, Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper, Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic?, The Council of the Titans: The Old Greek Gods Among the Amorites, "The Giant in a Thousand Years: Tracing Narratives of Gigantism in the Hebrew Bible and Beyond," in Goff, Stuckenbruck, and Morano (eds. Andrew: Yeah, so its an interesting point because what is St. Matthew doing? Copyright 2005-2023 Ancient Faith Ministries, Inc.All Rights Reserved. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University and is the host of the The Whole Counsel of God podcast and co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast on Ancient Faith Radio. Thats like everyones evening devotional reading right there. Andrew: In the noun form, right, when its used for the thing on the top of the ark of the covenant, as mercy-seat, which is lovely. And that can lead to a lot of despair. Andrew: Yeah, probably. Do Orthodox Christians have any teaching on atonement? Fr. And then this triggers everything: this triggers St. Pauls mission now out to the nations, to go and sort of re-take them. Fr. Stephen: You can read for yourself. In case you miscontrued everything I just said: Youre not worshiping Azazel. Fr. Stephen: Well, this is So, Hanukkah is the re-dedication of the Temple. The modern world does not acknowledge but is nevertheless haunted by spirits - angels, demons and saints. So I mention all that because, as we read Scripture more and as we live the Christian life more, if we understand what it is that Christ is doing and how the Scripture tells us what hes doing, then that gives meaning to so much of our lives. Yeah, thats not in the Greek. The Whole Counsel of God: An Introduction to Your Bible: Stephen De Youve got Jerusalem as an established city. Fr. Fr. Fr. Fr. Fr. So there are others, certainly Hebrews has a very detailed, and were going to Hebrews is going to be peppered throughout this half of the show, but it has a very detailed description and connection between Christ and the Day of Atonement ritual, as were going to see. Stephen De Young's article, Here There Be Giants which, just as Farley's, was posted to the Ancient Faith Ministries website: "The V. Rev. Stephen: [Laughter] Because exactly the question you just asked. Stephen De Young finishes up the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12, and starts on Chapter 13. Fr. Stephen: Sin leaves a taint, not just on us. Sin messes up the place where you are. Stephen: Yeah, so this gets sort of double interesting, because not only do we have the made-up English word that is primarily reflecting, as you just described, an English concept than it is trying to reflect an original word The reason for that is the Greek word, ilasterion, doesnt occur anywhere that we still possess until Jewish folks start using it, meaning the Greek Old Testament and then works like Philo, Josephus, etc. Yeah, so heres the thing, that the King James Bible translates this word, when its used for, Fr. As talked about in the book of Enoch, this would be Cains line. Its funny: sometimes well getpeople will ask us questions like: Which Bible scholar says this? Fr. Richard B. Sorensen notes, "Nephilim were said to be a race or a group of people that had distinct physical characteristics of large size and great strength" and that "the psychological characteristics of the Nephilim are not specifically described in the Bible, they are generally pictured as being very proud, belligerent, sexually aggressive, and prone to conflictThe Nephilim are portrayed as men who were tall, strong, and belligerentphysically intimidatingNephilic characteristics of height, musculature, and psychopathology." The Bible refers to people who are (generically) tall, (generically) very tall, or (generically) of great stature. Okay, but before we get to the actual New Testament, theres some stuffsurprise, surprise, Lord of Spirits listeners!theres other literature that surrounds the New Testament that informs whats going on in the New Testament. Stephen: So he does this sin-offering, and then the sort of Day of Atonement ritual proper begins. Andrew: Yeah, right, and it probably should be noted that that doesnt contradict what came before. Andrew: Doesnt everyone? But completely wrong. Andrew: Yeah, theyre now participating in the eschatological Day of Atonement. Andrew: Right! Galatians, Introduction - The Whole Counsel of God - Ancient Faith If it read that way, then youre asking the natural question, which is what mediates between? The idea of aliens, giants and mysterious monolithic structures has become popularized. [Sigh], Fr. Stephen: And consecrate them as sacred space. Stephen: Well, he actuallyI think youre mixing him with Pompey, the Roman general, Fr. Welcome! Oh, man, whats happening here? [Laughter] I just need to read this word. Stephen De Young is not only leading the charge for Orthodox apologetics in a world of secular biblical scholarship, but he is also doing us all a favor by reviving the cosmic frame of ancient Christians, giving hope to a jaded culture desperately looking for a re-enchanted world in which it can fully participate. Stephen: When a pe gets doubled, it gets pronounced like a P instead of an F. Thats why its usually written with two Ps. Thank you so much! Fr. Facebook Stephen: Right, and taken outside the camp. [Disgusted noises] All this disillusioning. Fr. If youre a pastor and youre hearing confessions and you hear people struggle with all the disciplines of the Church that are intended, for instance, to purify us, to help us participate in purification, then theres a lot of discouragement that can come from that, and I think a lot of that comes because of a kind of reduced vision of what this is about. Not so great for the goat, but it keeps that from happening, which would be a very awkward moment. Now, this doesnt mean, like, he was Santa, keeping a list all year, like the high priest was going around spying on people and seeing all the stuff they did and writing it down. Okay, but before we get to the New Testament, right? Stephen: [Laughter] I thank you for the courtesy laugh, for the golf-clap of laughter. Stephen: Yeah, you dont get much worse than that. [Laughter]. Andrew: Yeah, which we talked about before, a few episodes back. Fr. Yeah, theres more to it than that, of course. And its interesting: I recently heard a certainhe identifies as a Protestant, but most Protestants would not identify him as a Protestantbiblical scholar talking about atonement, and who tried to read St. Athanasiuss On the Incarnation and just said, I cant tell what hes doing in terms of his In terms of trying to address it in terms of atonement theory. So hes sort of the main motivator of that. Stephen De Young begins the discussion of Romans 1. Photius, are you there? What does it mean? Stephen De Young The V. Rev. Awesome stuff! Fr. Fr. Fr. Fr. We cannot really begin considering "giants" unless and until we define that vague, genetic, subjective term (and I can think of 5-6 definitions). Fr. Stephen: Yeah, but were not just playing the Nope card. Stephen: Yes, but this is the biblical, actual Azazel, so Denzel Washington and John Goodman cannot help you. He is this desert spirit. 15K views Streamed 1 year ago Fr. Its quite all right. Is the ecclesial body of Eastern Orthodoxy the most orthodox (faithful to the apostles), or is the most faithfulness to orthodoxy perhaps found in a Protestant denomination, or maybe Roman Catholicism? [Laughter] Its the opposite! He comes specifically to do combat with the evil one. He says they put a reed in his hand; its the exact same word for reed. And then they took the reed from him and struck him with it. Stephen: And the pivot-point, when we go from the end of St. Lukes gospel to the beginning of Acts, is the story he tells twice, and thats Christs ascension into heaven, which he tells at the end of his gospel, and then again at the beginning of Acts he narrates Christs ascension again. The Bible provides us with some similes pertaining to height. Fr. That is the place where it is most key that this happens within the sanctuary. The answer is that they had to invent a new religion. The book is deeply scholarly and deeply spiritual at the same time. Fr. I have this crazy new doctrine of God I want everyone to follow me on. But, yeah, theres this reference in 1 John 3:12, which makes reference of Cain being of the wicked one, who murders his brother. Related Episodes Violence in the Old Testament: Sin, Death and Justice in the Bible Lord of Spirits: Blessings and Curses What exactly is a blessing? She would therefore have passed her DNA to some of her children (especially to her son Canaan) and later descendants, so that individuals of large size and/or psychopathic behavior could therefore reappear later in history. It is being explicitly pitched as a defense of Eastern Orthodoxy as such. Stephen: He had to purify himself before he could come back into the camp. That would have been a great quest line. We will find that the only reading of the Bible that results in tall tales about "giants" is not a literal one but one which I call a theo-sci-fi eisegetical (pseudo) hermeneutic. Sorry, I will not get tired. Stephen: So hes seen in 1 Enoch, or the book of Enoch, when Azazel appears, Azazel is sort of the leader of the bad guys, the leader of the rebellious watchers, who are responsible for corrupting the line of Cain and leading them to destruction that results in the flood. All right, well, the third half is going to be the shortest half. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, I mean, how do they fish him out? Fr. Andrew: Yeah [Laughter] So they just kind of perpetuated what had been done before. Well see more of that as we go on, but to reiterate here that this is not, in its biblical usage, any kind of specialized technical theological term. Fr. Fr. Andrew: So the blood is drained, the body is burnt. The definition is not as simple as it may seem, since some may employ it metaphorically such as referring to a giant of industry. I am the biggest nerd anyone will ever meet. Stephen: Yeah, and this was very clearly understood by the earliest readers, because every extra-biblical source we have from the Jewish world treats Azazel as a spiritual being. Stephen: Weve talked about that theres kind of an anti-theosis that happens. Andrew: Yeah, right, because there is not just the problem of the sins of the people. I do I will say, I acknowledge the King James Bible has some errors in it, translation errorsand we just lost all of our KJV-only listeners the one. Stephen De Young continues the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 13. Stephen: Because that kind of response kind of begs the question, where its sort of like: Well, okay, what is St. Matthew talking about? This element of the eschatological Day of Atonement, that Azazel is finally defeatedits not just sending him back his sin while he continues to control the rest of the world out there, but hes done away with and disposed ofis, as we said Hebrews is going to be peppered all the way through here. Andrew: Aw man. In Hebrew, thats Yom Kippur, which is this annual commemoration thats made by the people of God in ancient Israel, but its an addition to the regular sin-offerings that are to be done every day. Fr. Fr. Stephen: It makes you wonder if that was a practicality, like, if a high priest dropped dead at some point, and everybody was kind of like, What do we do and how do we prevent this from happening in the future?, Fr. Photius: Im sorry. Fr. Its everybodys sins. [Laughter]. Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel . Stephen: Right, now, a couple of key things there. Stephens deep learning and years of study, not that the book is academic. Im getting a little giddy here, because when we were going over this in our preparation, it was just stunning to me: once you have clarity about, especially what the Old Testament says, theres all kinds of bits of the New Testament that just light up, left and right. But no Christian disputes that the theology of the apostles is the standard for Christian orthodoxy, so saying the apostles were orthodox in a general sense is not a very punchy claim since this is true tautologically. Andrew: Indeed. All right, well, lets talk about St. Lukes gospel, and, of course, Acts; these two kind of form a single narrative together, with just the In the former treatise, O Theophilus, at the beginning. And now were going to turn towards the New Testament. In the Orthodox Church, Greek is kind of our base language for theology and liturgy and so forth. [Laughter]. Fr. In Hebrews 2:14, it says that inasmuch as the children have taken part of the flesh and blood, he himself likewise shared in the same, so this is talking about why Christ became incarnate: Why did Christ become incarnate? Fr. Lets be clear on that. Fr. Andrew: Awesome. Stephen: Right, but what happens is, in sort of the symbolic mindhi, Jonathanof the Jewish people, sheep and lambs become associated with Passover. Stephen dismantles, and one very dear to my heart. [Laughter] So instead, now, this goat, this completely corrupt goat, has to go outside the camp, the city, outside, back out into the bad place, and its going to Azazel. Stephen: Right, hes clarifying. Fr. Fr. AFP publications include: Fr. Fr. But is this like the one time you can touch it, when this ritual being performed, or is it sort of sprinkled from afar? We understand your hunger and your thirst to know more, and we appreciate and laud that. Dan: Yeah, the second question was: What was it about their understanding of the goats blood that was understood to have a cleansing or sanctifying effect over the various parts of the holy of holies and the Temple that you guys discussed? But he was particularly significant in the understanding of both Judaism of the Second Temple period and early Christianity as not only the first sinner, as we already talked about a little bit, but also as a teacher of sin. by Father Stephen De Young In response to what he viewed as not merely a malformation but a destruction of the Eucharist in Roman practice, John Calvin was dogmatic that the Eucharist is not a sacrifice. If you didnt get a chance to call in during the live broadcast, wed love to hear from you either via email at lordofspirits@ancientfaith.com, or you can message us at our Lord of Spirits podcast Facebook page. Fr. Fr. Fr. Fr. Andrew: Nothing to do with that. And again, this is all about not dying. Mike Schmitz), Let's Read the Gospels with Annie F. Downs, Fr. ,The Whole Counsel of God: An Introduction to Your Bible [Laughter] No, theyve got to both be great. Fr. They are teaching you and giving you the proclamation of Christ. Andrew Stephen Damick in Emmaus, Pennsylvania, and joining me tonight is my co-host, Fr. So, Dan, are you there? He is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog, as well as co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast. Fr. I dont think theyre such long questions. Stephen: Yes, involving metallurgy for weapons of war and those kind of things. So theres this idea that works were being taught and handed down. Andrew: Right, because, again, what is sacrifice? Fr. Stephen: Let me add a couple of other things. When Christ says hes sanctifying himself, its not as if he was unholy before and hes doing some action; that him sanctifying himself is talking about his incarnation, his earthly life, and his coming death, in which he has sanctified himself, his person, in order that his disciples in all ages would be sanctified, would be made holy. When hes turning three pages! So, yeah, but that understanding of it is responsible for a lot of Western Christianity. Stephen: Yeah, I hope youve got a pigeon, a lamb, and a young ox.. And then, when eventually Israel makes its way to the promised land, its Israel, and then the nations are out there. Stephen: And the next verse in 1 John, verse 13, says that the reason he killed Abel is that Abels works were good and Cains works were evil. Fr. Fr. Fr. It has this sort of importance as a major battle site. Well do an ark of the covenant episode, just about that. So the first question I mean, Ill start by saying I havent read the book of Leviticus, so excuse my ignorance on this, but I have read actually, after hearing the last podcast you guys did, I was doing a little bit of reading, and I read that the priest would lay hands on both goats, like on the goat for Yahweh as well as that Is that true, or would they not lay hands on the goat for Yahweh? Andrew: Yeah, and most Semitic languages work this way, so if any of our listeners are Arabic-speakers, which I know some are, its again those three consonants make up pretty much every word in Arabic. Fr. Fr. Stephen De Young | Ancient Faith Ministries Stephen: And youll see it in even Orthodox translations, because a lot of our early Orthodox translations were either utilizing or aping the King James Version language, and so you can kind of see how you can get there, like if you go from a very developed theological idea, where you dont really know what the Hebrew word means, so youre thinking, Well, okay, God is enthroned behind the ark of the covenant, between the cherubim. [Laughter]. Email Newsletter, Terms of Use Privacy Policy Permissions Content Disclaimer. Stephen: Yeah, which brings it to I give and I take away, and I gave you your OED, Fr. That makes perfect sense. So theres two goats, right? Stephen offers a firm, yet never harsh or condescending, corrective to any interpretation of the Old Testament that seeks either to allegorize or demythologize . Fr. They think that sins are put on animals and then the animals sacrificed to Godthat never happens in the Scripture anywhere. This concerns the oft-neglected area of St. Paul's own personal practices of prayer and piety, and how this . Fr. Stephen: So this isnt transactional, so its not an issue of, like, Oh, well, maybe there were some sins that got missed during the year, so were going to do this sort of catch-all Day of Atonement to pick up those ones that were missed. Those were being done perpetually to cover all of the sinning that was going on, that everyone knew was going on in Israel. This is from an apostle, letting us know how to interpret that Isaiah passage. Andrew: Yeah, the GOATiest. All right. Andrew: [Laughter] Right, no, no, no, theres more. Fr. 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