While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. MochetVelo With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. After a full rebuild my motor started right up, rode for 5 minutes, stopped, no spark. 1. The voltage generated in the primary winding is a product of its velocity through the magnetic field and the strength of that field, so the condition of the magnet is vital for the correct performance of the magneto. Feel free to buy the forum staff a coffee or pint or just make a contribution of your choice. 0000002847 00000 n patterns for shims, gaskets and bearing capacitance to satisfactory ignition system The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. xref NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. Initially this was done because it was easier to provide good insulation for the secondary winding of an external coil than it was in a coil buried in the construction of the magneto (early magnetos had the coil assembly externally to the rotating parts to make them easier to insulateat the expense of efficiency). With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). 82 23 That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. classic vehicles generally. 0000013093 00000 n After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. It uses a Bosch ZA4 magneto (rebuilt about 10 years back) which produces a nice blue spark in the plugs when they are out of the engine. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. Therefore, taking the sparking plug(s) out of the engine, laying them on the cylinder head and checking whether the magneto will produce a spark at kickstart speeds is not a sufficient test. Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. I forgot about this. However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. I also want to wire up the battery better, as I'm just using jumper cables. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. 0000004414 00000 n With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The magneto is rebuilt by a reputable US shop. The original coil may be reusable, although it is susceptible to faults - as described in our section: common problems on magnetos. Great photos, quality! The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. LUCAS K1F MAGNETO RUNNING AT 1200 RPM AT THE ARMATURE. Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % Don't flame, hate, spam. Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. Or what else could be causing this? performance. Also, some pattern contact-breaker assemblies are too large at the fat end and need to be filed or ground to size. Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! Lucas (and most other) capacitors made in the 50's & 60's used a paper dielectric. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. Also, with the points open, check that there is an open circuit between them; if fitted with a Brightspark EasyCap, it will take a little while for the resistance reading to climb off the scale. If it is an original capacitor then it will almost certainly fail because of its age and the materials and techniques that were used to construct them. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. have a small choice of reconditioned commonly found on classic motorcycles. any service or repair work until further notice. Nederlandse Re-install the contact-breaker assembly, ensuring that it registers properly with the armature shaft. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. many ignition systems, focusing especially on With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. Replace the cam, ensuring that the notches in it engage as before (e.g. insulators; and timing discs. A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. a separate spring-loaded holder (Lucas) or hidden at the back of the contact breaker plate (BT-H). The place to buy our EasyCap condensers Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). long practical experience of working on magnetos and information as we can about the electrical equipment It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. Svensk Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. This induces an EMF in the coil, which in turn causes a current to flow. It may not display this or other websites correctly. grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip Checked it over and found no spark. One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. Check the cam surface. themselves. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' To help magneto owners look after their magnetos 0 If you have a plug tester available that adds simulated compression pressure (using air pressure) to the end of the exposed plug while firing voltage to it you will see the more pressure the higher kv the plug needs to fire correctly. slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. If working on your own, holding the end of the HT cable steady 6 mm from the engine is difficult when kicking the starter. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. We are unfortunately not able to offer tour of some of our specialised workshop With twin- or multi-cylinder magnetos, and some single-cylinder magnetos, the brass is a segment, rather than a complete ring, and you may need to rotate the armature in order to be able to see it. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). If your magneto does not have an EasyCap but it fitted with a condenser buried in the armature, then it is impossible to check the condition of the condenser, while the armature is assembled, without specialised equipment. On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. Electrical - Armature windings, Condenser, Slip ring, Points and Bushes. 0000002602 00000 n Norsk here. You must log in or register to reply here. Downloadable drawings, all for free, for 0000001015 00000 n replace it with an EasyCap. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). 0000001913 00000 n Voltage across the primary coil results in a proportional voltage being induced across the secondary winding of the coil. Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. If nobody is available, then you can make a test plug by removing the earth electrode from an old, but functional, sparking plug. Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. Italiana wish to make the required puller tool Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop Thank you for your patience. In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. Deutsch 82 0 obj<> endobj A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. classic owners. Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. Now line up your degree wheel with the pointer at 38*. quality are also available, of the correct Parts lists and workshop instructions, not Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. NEW 0000005468 00000 n Italiana 0000001320 00000 n 0000003086 00000 n load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. sequences illustrating the importance of Once On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. anglais, votre convenance. Powered by Invision Community. However, dont make them lop-sided. It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. Dual plugs provide both redundancy should a magneto fail, and better engine performance (through enhanced combustion). The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm. Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. If your multimeter can measure capacitance, the reading should be within 10% of: 150 nF (0.15 uF) for the C01, C02, C03, C05 and CU/150 EasyCaps; 220 nF (0.22 uF) for the C06, C07 and CU/220 EasyCaps. -- misfiring, particularly at higher revs and fully open throttle, or when opening the throttle. Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. Under construction, so far showing video By Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. Armoto LtdRegistered & Trading Address:Unit 26, M1 Commerce Park, Markham Lane, Duckmanton, Chesterfield S44 5HSTelephone: 01246 826667 | sales@armoto.co.ukRegistered in England Company No. trailer Free access to service and repair Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. I'll try the 3/16" gap test. Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . dynamos, regulators, alternators and Nous Dansk and overhauls. Franaise Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. To do this, measure the resistance between the magneto body and the end of the armature shaft. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in the plug cap. errors in the translations. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; wish to 'demystify and simplify' wherever we can, so In the right direction (clockwise, looking at the points) and a fairly healthy looking spark should jump the gap from one ht at a time, lead to casing. (Japanese) Can you rig up real cables? The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. If you need more information, or wish to order by post or pay over the phone, please ring: 01273 913181. On the very first BSA I ever owned, I sufferred the same problem. Translations provided by the Google Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the We provide 0000000016 00000 n If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. I think it may be do to condensor failure. I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. Magneto parts We also sell our Brightspark range of specially-selected, top-quality, British-made slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH magnetos. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. Due to the inevitable losses in the system, this oscillation decays fairly rapidly. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . Since the beginning of World War I in 1914, magneto-equipped aircraft engines have typically been dual-plugged, whereby each cylinder has two spark plugs, with each plug having a separate magneto system. Excellent "how-to". part-exchange. With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). If the reading is less than 3000 ohms, it would be unusual, but is indicative of a problem. If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. Because the magneto has low voltage output at low speed, starting an engine is more difficult. As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. Many should appreciate. old-style capacitor (the 'condensectomy') and A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently JVC 4VR-5436X 4 Channel Stereo Receiver Service Manual Original. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. [2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. books, learndpapers and patents on If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. Take a look Post in the forum instead. -- Tickover, pulling away, and low-speed running erratic. These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. If you have a Megger or similar insulation tester, set it to test at 500V. JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. degrade with age. I would also welcome information on some of the things shown in the video such as the handles on the trolley. With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. 0000001569 00000 n I would narrow the plug gaps to .020" and see what happens. With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. Housings can sometimes get misshapen, in which case try to rectify that. Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. Some original units are still in service today. with a fixed register in the cam housing and with the advance/retard actuator). It's easy! If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. pages on how to do that. downloadable drawings for those of you who
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